Meeting Minutes for 10 December 2006

Dec 10 15:01:33 *    Sonar_Gal now calls this meeting to order
Dec 10 15:01:48 <Sonar_Gal>    task list for tonights meeting
Dec 10 15:01:51 <Sonar_Gal>    http://fedoraunity.org/fup/task-list/
Dec 10 15:02:04 <Sonar_Gal>    1. # Draft a Backup Policy
Dec 10 15:02:04 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-DEC-10
Dec 10 15:02:04 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:02:04 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Draft a policy for backing up the servers and a disaster recovery plan. This needs to be in place and tested ASAP. Plan is in place, scripts still need testing. Backups being done manually for now, scripts still in process.
Dec 10 15:02:44 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:02:50 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:02:58 <daMaestro>    I have been thinking on this, nothing in writing yet. sorry. EOF
Dec 10 15:03:27 <Sonar_Gal>    2. # ix respin process to provide SRPMS
Dec 10 15:03:28 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-DEC-10
Dec 10 15:03:28 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Re-spin Team
Dec 10 15:03:28 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: A process for collecting and posting of the SRPMs needs to be set up for the re-spins in order to be GPL compliant. In progress. Scripts being edited to build SRPMs and to rsync SRPMs. Scripting underway.
Dec 10 15:03:35 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:03:45 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:04:21 <daMaestro>    I know the repo sync stuff supports dealing with srpms, i'm not sure what progress has been made with pilgrim/re-spins and srpms but i do know we have the source rpm tree EOF
Dec 10 15:04:32 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:04:37 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:05:31 <BobJensen>    the source trees are complete for FC5 and FC6, Jon's script is working well we have a couple issues to deal with but I am sure over the next week we can deal with that
Dec 10 15:05:34 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:05:58 <Sonar_Gal>    3. # Document Server configs and setup process
Dec 10 15:05:59 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-DEC-10
Dec 10 15:05:59 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:05:59 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Document all progress on the sites as this work is completed so we have the history! In Process on Gobby. Nothing new as of 3 Dec 2006.
Dec 10 15:07:00 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:07:07 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:07:34 <daMaestro>    Yeah, well.. no progress on this to report. I plan to just write howtos based on how we have our systems setup, assuming there is no security risk in doing so. EOF
Dec 10 15:07:46 <Sonar_Gal>    4. # Configure Bug Trackers
Dec 10 15:07:46 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: COMPLETED
Dec 10 15:07:46 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:07:46 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Bug trackers need to be configured based on use. Jon has begun setting this up. More to be done after the holidays.
Dec 10 15:07:46 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:08:09 *    Harley-D (i=Harley@lizard.dual-oc256.net) has joined #fedora-unity
Dec 10 15:08:17 <Sonar_Gal>    Request to have this item removed from the tasklist if this is completed.
Dec 10 15:08:35 <BobJensen>    +2
Dec 10 15:08:42 <daMaestro>    i think it is, but i don't have time to double check +1
Dec 10 15:08:55 <Sonar_Gal>    5. # Internal Task Tracker
Dec 10 15:08:55 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: COMPLETED
Dec 10 15:08:55 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:08:55 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Setup an internal task tracking database, using Poi. Jon has begun setting this up. More to be done after the holidays.
Dec 10 15:08:57 <Sonar_Gal>    Request to have this item removed from the tasklist if this is completed.
Dec 10 15:09:02 <BobJensen>    +2
Dec 10 15:09:08 <daMaestro>    +1
Dec 10 15:09:12 <Sonar_Gal>    6. # Configure Mailing Lists
Dec 10 15:09:12 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-DEC-10
Dec 10 15:09:12 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:09:12 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Lists have been added, we need to configure them per usage. Not yet completed, preliminary setup done, still needs to be configured.
Dec 10 15:09:13 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:09:13 <Corwyn>    done and done
Dec 10 15:09:24 <daMaestro>    ?
Dec 10 15:09:39 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:09:40 <daMaestro>    Did someone actually get to this? EOF
Dec 10 15:09:45 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:09:50 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:10:25 <BobJensen>    I asked Jon to let me know when he has time so we can go over this. It has not happened yet. Maybe tonight? EOF
Dec 10 15:10:47 <Sonar_Gal>    7.  # Setup Non-Profit Organization
Dec 10 15:10:47 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-JAN-01
Dec 10 15:10:47 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Unity-Leaders
Dec 10 15:10:47 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Get the papers filed for setting up a non-profit organization for Fedora Unity. Andrea is pulling the paperwork and documentation together for this with Bob. Even if filed now, not expected to be approved before 01-JAN-2007.
Dec 10 15:10:54 <Sonar_Gal>    Is on hold til after the holidays
Dec 10 15:11:05 <Sonar_Gal>    8. # Setup State Change Notification
Dec 10 15:11:05 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-DEC-10
Dec 10 15:11:05 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:11:05 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Setup state change notification on Fedora Unity sites.
Dec 10 15:11:12 <Corwyn>    !!!
Dec 10 15:11:19 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Dec 10 15:11:25 <Corwyn>    Move to skip
Dec 10 15:11:27 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 15:11:42 <Corwyn>    X
Dec 10 15:12:25 *    Corwyn crawls back under his rock
Dec 10 15:12:30 <Sonar_Gal>    hehe
Dec 10 15:12:33 <BobJensen>    +1
Dec 10 15:12:46 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:12:53 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:13:46 *    ChanServ gives channel operator status to BobJensen
Dec 10 15:14:11 <daMaestro>    As I work through some major plone stuff I am doing, I am finding neat ways to interact with plone and my python skills are improving a lot. I think I will be ready to takle the state change notifications with enough skill that they will work very, very well and actually function as we had originally wanted them to. OEF
Dec 10 15:14:38 <Sonar_Gal>    9. # Create new content type for templates
Dec 10 15:14:39 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-JAN-01
Dec 10 15:14:39 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:14:39 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES:
Dec 10 15:14:40 *    Sonar_Guy thinks daMaestro Rocks!
Dec 10 15:14:41 <daMaestro>    and since i used OEF .. give me a week or so to work on this EOF
Dec 10 15:14:51 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:14:53 <Sonar_Gal>    lol  after the holidays
Dec 10 15:14:58 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:15:09 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:15:29 *    BobJensen has changed the topic to: Fedora Unity Project - End-User Support: #fedora - http://fedoraunity.org - Next Unity Team meeting on Monday Dec 18 @ 02:00 UTC (Sunday 8PM CST) - Solved http://fedorasolved.org - x86_64 http://fedora64.org/ - Torrent http://torrent.fedoraunity.org/ - Bug Reports http://bugs.fedoraunity.org/ - Mailing Lists http://lists.fedoraunity.org/
Dec 10 15:16:04 <daMaestro>    I have been working on my own plone product and have created 3 new content types. I know how to do this and we can now actually create "unity howto - single release" "unity howto - multi release" content types that will work as we have all wanted them to in the past. EOF
Dec 10 15:16:31 <Sonar_Gal>    10. # Develop Unity Workflow
Dec 10 15:16:32 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2006-JAN-01
Dec 10 15:16:32 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Unity-Team
Dec 10 15:16:32 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES:
Dec 10 15:16:38 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:16:46 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:17:32 <daMaestro>    I'm getting better with this. I know how to do it TTW/ZMI but it should be done in FS code. What I need, is what the workflow is supposed to look like.
Dec 10 15:18:18 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:18:31 <daMaestro>    In other words, Private (private) -> Review (private) -> Edit Team (private) -> Submit for Publish (private) -> Published (public) ... or something like that
Dec 10 15:18:40 <daMaestro>    Rhe more details the better for me. EOF
Dec 10 15:18:42 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:18:46 <daMaestro>    s/Rhe/The/
Dec 10 15:19:11 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:20:10 *    Southern_Gentlem watches as andrea wakes scott up
Dec 10 15:20:24 <Sonar_Guy>    Writer genterates (Private) -> Review (Private) -> Edit Team (Private) -> Submit for Publish (Public) -> Publish (Published) maintain permissions so originator
Dec 10 15:20:36 <Sonar_Guy>    Can edit the document after publish no matter where moved.
Dec 10 15:20:38 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:20:44 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:21:18 <daMaestro>    Please send these to the lists.
Dec 10 15:21:20 <BobJensen>    Should authors be able to make changes with out a document getting reviewed by the edit team again?
Dec 10 15:21:32 <Sonar_Gal>    0
Dec 10 15:21:35 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:21:38 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:21:41 <Southern_Gentlem>    rereviewed
Dec 10 15:21:42 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:21:45 <Corwyn>    !
Dec 10 15:21:49 <daMaestro>    BobJensen, it seems that is how the workflow will have to work.
Dec 10 15:22:03 <BobJensen>    I would think that a change must be reviewed by the edit and content(technical) groups again. EOF
Dec 10 15:22:07 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:22:07 <Sonar_Guy>    this allows for peer review as we discussed.  Allows originator to correct issues.
Dec 10 15:22:14 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Dec 10 15:22:18 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:22:22 <daMaestro>    BobJensen, there would have to be some work done with CMFEditions to set the state back to X while the changes are reviewed
Dec 10 15:22:39 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:22:40 <Corwyn>    As I see published documents changed on the changes list, I go back through them and make sure there are no errors that I can spot
Dec 10 15:22:42 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 15:22:49 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:22:53 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:23:01 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:23:11 <Sonar_Guy>    Most correnctions at this point do not get reviewed at this point now.  So it would not make a big deal.
Dec 10 15:23:13 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:23:16 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:23:51 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 15:24:26 <daMaestro>    You guys are talking about integrating workflow with CMFEditions. If this is a serious request, it needs to be done on the lists so I can read full thoughts. For example, submitted changes are a new version of the document and they stay private till the workflow is complete. In the meantime, the old version stays public. Basically I see this as multiple documents (versions) each with their own workflow. EOF
Dec 10 15:24:52 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:24:53 <BobJensen>    As long as we have a notification that the teams get that a doc was changed I guess that is fine. As we grow we will need to watch these closer to make sure that once an item is "published" someone can not go in a put in bogus info. EOF
Dec 10 15:25:10 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:25:17 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:25:34 <Sonar_Guy>    Part of the reason for version tracking.  So we can revert if the information is found to be incorrect.
Dec 10 15:25:38 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:25:53 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:25:55 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:26:03 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:26:27 <daMaestro>    Versions are not being forced at this time (as they were on the old site). We need to vote if we think things have stabilized enough to start forcing versions again.
Dec 10 15:26:27 <daMaestro>    EOF
Dec 10 15:26:31 <Sonar_Guy>    +!
Dec 10 15:26:34 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:26:40 <daMaestro>    +0
Dec 10 15:26:41 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:26:44 <Southern_Gentlem>    wersions yes
Dec 10 15:26:47 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
Dec 10 15:26:51 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:26:58 <BobJensen>    Versions Yes
Dec 10 15:27:33 <Sonar_Guy>    ?
Dec 10 15:27:41 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:27:54 <Sonar_Guy>    Your reason for not wanting them on now daMaestro?
Dec 10 15:27:54 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:27:54 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:27:56 <BobJensen>    X
Dec 10 15:28:07 <daMaestro>    ?
Dec 10 15:28:10 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:28:28 <daMaestro>    I might be confused on the meaning of our votes. I thought +0 was nuetral.. am I wrong?
Dec 10 15:28:30 <daMaestro>    EOF
Dec 10 15:28:34 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:28:41 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:29:00 <BobJensen>    IMO I think we need version to help prevent vandalism
Dec 10 15:29:07 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:29:09 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
Dec 10 15:29:13 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:29:16 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:29:20 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:29:20 <BobJensen>    This will give us a little bit of a "safety net"
Dec 10 15:29:24 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:29:41 <BobJensen>    We have backups also but this would be a lot easier in most cases
Dec 10 15:29:43 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:29:51 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:29:55 <daMaestro>    For the record may we have +1 = yes, +0 = positive neutral, -0 = negitive neutral, -1 = no?
Dec 10 15:29:59 <daMaestro>    EOF
Dec 10 15:30:10 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:30:10 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
Dec 10 15:30:31 <Sonar_Guy>    No, +1 is a vote for, +0 is a vote against
Dec 10 15:30:32 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:30:37 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:30:45 *    Sonar_Gal gives Southern_Gentlem the floor
Dec 10 15:30:51 <Southern_Gentlem>    myself i perfer +1 0 -1 eof
Dec 10 15:31:03 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:31:18 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:31:42 *    daMaestro motions to change this to include +1 0 -1 +-0 for expressing thoughts.. but not putting in a vote EOF
Dec 10 15:31:59 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:32:47 <BobJensen>    no vote is no vote, +1 (for), -1 (against). I see no reason to allow the "fence votes" unless we get to beat people in to changing their minds. EOF
Dec 10 15:33:00 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:33:02 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:33:04 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:33:07 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:33:11 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:33:12 <daMaestro>    +1
Dec 10 15:33:26 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:33:40 <Sonar_Guy>    If you do not want to vote do not put in a vote!  +1 for +0 against.  That is right from http://fedoraunity.org/fup/meeting-guidelines/
Dec 10 15:33:43 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:33:52 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:34:26 <daMaestro>    I motion to discuss this at a later time and update http://fedoraunity.org/fup/meeting-guidelines/ with a decision. I want to be able to vote neutral. EOF
Dec 10 15:34:35 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:34:42 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:35:09 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy says that is what we have now, I think we stick with it until all the options can be weighed
Dec 10 15:35:15 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:35:21 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:35:26 <Sonar_Guy>    +!
Dec 10 15:35:28 <Sonar_Guy>    !
Dec 10 15:35:34 *    Sonar_Gal gives Sonar_Guy the floor
Dec 10 15:35:42 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:35:44 <Sonar_Guy>    You have the option to be neutral now, by not voting.
Dec 10 15:35:46 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
Dec 10 15:36:01 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:36:06 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:36:53 <BobJensen>    I do see the value of voting "neutral" just as a method of acknowledging that we are voting on something to be sure an active party was not pulled away
Dec 10 15:37:10 <daMaestro>    BobJensen, +1
Dec 10 15:37:13 <BobJensen>    I think this merits more talk later
Dec 10 15:37:17 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:37:20 <Corwyn>    !!!
Dec 10 15:37:25 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Dec 10 15:37:43 <Corwyn>    move to do the last item, then go to open floor for the discussion on voting rules
Dec 10 15:37:44 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 15:37:51 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:37:54 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:37:57 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:38:26 <BobJensen>    Can we add a task for the first meeting in january that we will vote on how we vote?
Dec 10 15:38:34 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:38:50 <daMaestro>    BobJensen, +1
Dec 10 15:38:52 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, +0
Dec 10 15:38:53 <Corwyn>    !
Dec 10 15:39:07 *    BobJensen thinks we should think about it after talking about it.
Dec 10 15:39:09 <Sonar_Guy>    +1 BobJensen
Dec 10 15:39:09 <anonobomber>    is this the meeting?
Dec 10 15:39:11 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Dec 10 15:39:12 <Corwyn>    we can, do we want to?
Dec 10 15:39:14 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 15:39:17 <Southern_Gentlem>    anonobomber, yes
Dec 10 15:39:18 <Sonar_Gal>    anonobomber, yes
Dec 10 15:39:37 <Sonar_Gal>    ok 11. # Back-ups!! Back-ups!! Back-ups!!
Dec 10 15:39:38 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: ON-GOING
Dec 10 15:39:38 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Dec 10 15:39:38 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Perform Server Backups!!
Dec 10 15:39:41 *    Sonar_Guy shows anonobomber http://fedoraunity.org/fup/meeting-guidelines/
Dec 10 15:39:43 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:39:49 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:40:08 *    Em has quit ("Leaving")
Dec 10 15:40:42 <BobJensen>    I did another back up this week manually, i would like to start using the scripts before Scott goes out of town again. maybe if Scott has time we can work on that Tuesday night? EOF
Dec 10 15:40:50 <daMaestro>    !
Dec 10 15:40:59 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Dec 10 15:41:22 <daMaestro>    I think for the time being, before we get something in writing, we do the following:
Dec 10 15:41:31 <Sonar_Gal>    Bob you have tomorrow or Tuesday during the day to work on the scripts.  We have stuff at school Tuesday night
Dec 10 15:41:44 <anonobomber>    !
Dec 10 15:41:47 <daMaestro>    1) Every week, Sunday, we power off the VM, tar it up.
Dec 10 15:42:01 <daMaestro>    2) After the tar, we snapshot the machine.
Dec 10 15:42:14 <daMaestro>    3) We keep 1 week back tar.
Dec 10 15:42:20 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:42:25 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:42:27 <daMaestro>    4) We snapshot before any major system change.
Dec 10 15:42:28 <daMaestro>    EOF
Dec 10 15:42:36 <Sonar_Guy>    +1 daMaestro
Dec 10 15:42:39 *    Sonar_Gal gives anonobomber the floor
Dec 10 15:42:43 <anonobomber>    Can I get a copy of the build script(s) used to do the unity respins for Fedora Core 6?
Dec 10 15:42:54 <anonobomber>    EOF
Dec 10 15:43:03 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:43:04 <BobJensen>    2 weeks back up they are not that big, I have the disk space
Dec 10 15:43:11 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
Dec 10 15:43:18 <BobJensen>    anonobomber: no such item exists at this time
Dec 10 15:43:25 <daMaestro>    anonobomber, the entire system is changing to new code
Dec 10 15:43:42 <daMaestro>    anonobomber, we only have scripts for fc5, which might work for fc6.. BobJensen is the person that will know this more then I
Dec 10 15:43:47 <BobJensen>    anonobomber: we are re-tooling and when things are ready you will know about it
Dec 10 15:43:48 <daMaestro>    BobJensen, +1 if you have the space
Dec 10 15:43:49 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:43:53 *    Sonar_Gal gives Southern_Gentlem the floor
Dec 10 15:43:59 <Sonar_Guy>    +1 BobJensen
Dec 10 15:44:07 <Sonar_Gal>    +1 BobJensen
Dec 10 15:44:20 <Corwyn>    +1 BobJensen
Dec 10 15:44:23 <anonobomber>    BobJensen: ok thank you
Dec 10 15:44:33 <Southern_Gentlem>    if we have spacd be  a 2 -3 weeks backup would be desired
Dec 10 15:44:52 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
Dec 10 15:45:20 *    BobJensen is not planning on deleting any backups until space becomes an issue on the reserve server, but at no time will we have less than 2 weeks
Dec 10 15:45:33 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:45:41 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
Dec 10 15:45:56 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:45:57 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:45:58 <Southern_Gentlem>    longer the better imo
Dec 10 15:46:13 <BobJensen>    Open the floor so i can talk to anonobomber?
Dec 10 15:46:21 <BobJensen>    OOOOps
Dec 10 15:46:41 <Sonar_Gal>    ok now I have a topic.  Next week is the 17th  then the following weeks are the 24th xmas eve and the 31st newyears eve.  The next meeting after the 17th is the 7th of Jan.
Dec 10 15:46:51 <Sonar_Gal>    Is this ok with everyone
Dec 10 15:46:57 <BobJensen>    !
Dec 10 15:46:57 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:04 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:06 *    Sonar_Gal gives BobJensen the floor
Dec 10 15:47:17 <BobJensen>    First meeting of the new year at our early time?
Dec 10 15:47:26 <Southern_Gentlem>    yep
Dec 10 15:47:29 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:34 <BobJensen>    EOF
Dec 10 15:47:35 <Sonar_Gal>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:35 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:39 <BobJensen>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:49 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
Dec 10 15:47:52 *    Sonar_Gal now opens the floor for discussion
Dec 10 15:48:13 <Southern_Gentlem>    thinks maybe we should move all meetings to the early time
Dec 10 15:48:21 <BobJensen>    anonobomber: You can get the code we will be using for the re-spins the package is called pungi, I am sure you can google for it
Dec 10 15:48:22 <Sonar_Guy>    +0
Dec 10 15:49:04 <Sonar_Guy>    +0 Southern_Gentlem
Dec 10 15:49:06 <Southern_Gentlem>    during the winter months i think it will work
Dec 10 15:49:06 <BobJensen>    anonobomber: the mirroring tool is not ready for prime time yet but should be mid-january
Dec 10 15:49:16 <Corwyn>    -1 Southern_Gentlem
Dec 10 15:49:17 <Sonar_Gal>    Southern_Gentlem, +0
Dec 10 15:49:25 <Southern_Gentlem>    ok
Dec 10 15:50:08 <anonobomber>    BobJensen: ok
Dec 10 15:50:37 <BobJensen>    anonobomber: there are three tools total that we will be using, Pungi for the release creation, Pilgram for the Live media and a mirroring tool that is still being developed we don't have a final name yet
Dec 10 15:50:48 <Sonar_Guy>    any other topics for discussion?  If not I move to close the meeting!!
Dec 10 15:51:11 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: What do you think you will have for time before you leave?
Dec 10 15:51:17 <Corwyn>    do we want to discuss the voting rules?
Dec 10 15:51:31 <Sonar_Guy>    I am off tomorrow and tuesday all day!
Dec 10 15:51:45 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: OK how abotu tomorrow morning?
Dec 10 15:51:59 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: about 10Am your time?
Dec 10 15:52:05 <Sonar_Guy>    Just tell me when and I will be here waiting with bells!!
Dec 10 15:52:15 <Sonar_Guy>    WFM
Dec 10 15:52:21 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: shoudl not take more than an hour tops to get the info I need form you
Dec 10 15:52:30 <BobJensen>    s/form/from
Dec 10 15:52:30 <Sonar_Guy>    Ok
Dec 10 15:52:41 *    Southern_Gentlem goes to get that visual out of his head
Dec 10 15:53:05 <Sonar_Guy>    Jingle bells, jingle bells, Jingle all the way!!!!
Dec 10 15:53:17 <BobJensen>    Corwyn: yeah lets do that
Dec 10 15:53:28 <Sonar_Gal>    hehe
Dec 10 15:53:29 <Corwyn>    instead of a task added
Dec 10 15:54:00 <Corwyn>    I can see what daMaestro's asking for, he wants the ability to have his vote, even if it's neutral, on record
Dec 10 15:54:09 <BobJensen>    I say we move to a +1 (for), -0 (against), and something for a "no Vote"
Dec 10 15:54:18 <Sonar_Guy>    I am against it there are only 2 voting options yes or no, adding more options will just confuse it.  If you do not like it the option is not to vote.
Dec 10 15:54:44 <Sonar_Gal>    +1 for -1 against 0 neutral
Dec 10 15:55:04 <Corwyn>    what he's saying is, "saying nothing is not voicing an opinion for the record", am I correct, daMaestro ?
Dec 10 15:55:06 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1 Sonar_Gal
Dec 10 15:55:19 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: My only thinking is that if someoen has been active in the meeting and wants to be a part they may get pulled away and then thier Vote would not get registered
Dec 10 15:55:26 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, yes
Dec 10 15:55:58 <BobJensen>    I also think that we should take votes for one week via the mailing list
Dec 10 15:56:01 <Corwyn>    I can understand that
Dec 10 15:56:15 <Sonar_Guy>    but if they get pulled away they will not be able to enter that anyway!!  Or am I missing something?
Dec 10 15:56:21 <Corwyn>    even in live meetings and such there are people who vote "Abstain"
Dec 10 15:56:30 <Corwyn>    to get it on record that they did so
Dec 10 15:56:38 <BobJensen>    that way if someone cannot be here they can still have a say int hings however there woud  be no changing of votes
Dec 10 15:57:13 <Sonar_Guy>    If they are not here how doe they voice that????
Dec 10 15:57:22 <Corwyn>    exactly
Dec 10 15:57:24 <Sonar_Gal>    +1 (aye) -1 (nay) 0 (no vote or obstain at this time)
Dec 10 15:57:31 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1 0 -1 YES, no opinion NO
Dec 10 15:57:43 <BobJensen>    Being able to vote via email would allow members from arround the globe to vote even if they can not make the meetings
Dec 10 15:57:50 <daMaestro>    I need to run.
Dec 10 15:57:53 *    daMaestro has quit ("Leaving")
Dec 10 15:57:54 <Corwyn>    but if they are here, and they have a neutral opinion, they should have the ability to put it on record that they did so
Dec 10 15:58:14 <Sonar_Guy>    Then setup a poll with three options on that, do not change the meeting guidelines.
Dec 10 15:58:33 <Southern_Gentlem>    but then we would never get anything done, cause we would be waiting for the votes
Dec 10 15:58:50 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: nothing we do can't wait a week
Dec 10 15:58:52 <Sonar_Guy>    If your at the meeting you have 3 options.  Vote yes +1 vote no +0 or not vote.
Dec 10 15:59:08 <Sonar_Guy>    If you want others to vote turn on polling.
Dec 10 15:59:28 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: Not a bad idea
Dec 10 16:00:02 <BobJensen>    I just feel we are leaving some of our contributors out of things just because they can not be here
Dec 10 16:00:08 <Sonar_Guy>    but in the meeting format its either +1 for yes or +0 for no.  If you have not opinon you do not vote.
Dec 10 16:00:25 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen,  there will be somethings coming up with the nonprofit that will need to be answered asap not waiting a week can get you pushed back at the IRS to never-never land
Dec 10 16:00:56 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: those "special situations" will be handled as needed I am sure
Dec 10 16:01:12 <Southern_Gentlem>    Sonar_Guy,  and several of us disagree to that now
Dec 10 16:01:16 <Sonar_Guy>    I think we are getting off topic here.  This is about the meeting guidelines.  Not other issues.
Dec 10 16:01:22 <Corwyn>    Sonar_Guy: the only problem I can see with not doing it is, if someone goes back to the minutes and looks to see what happened on an issue. It's not clear if someone was actually paying attention if they haven't voted one way or the other, by voting neutral, it's on record that they were at least here and paying attention, and they showed they didn't side one way or the other for the official record.
Dec 10 16:01:41 <BobJensen>    Corwyn: +1
Dec 10 16:02:12 <Sonar_Gal>    then what I suggested  +1 yes -1 no 0 is neutral or no vote
Dec 10 16:02:17 <Sonar_Guy>    Yes but that is the nature of the beast with online meetings over in person meetings.  If they are not paying attention it will not get recoreded anyway!!
Dec 10 16:03:01 <Sonar_Guy>    If they get distracted/pulled away how will that vote get recoreded anyway??
Dec 10 16:03:03 <Southern_Gentlem>    scott way or hiway see ya
Dec 10 16:03:10 <Corwyn>    true, but if they have a neutral vote, they can't come back later and say "I disagreed and should have had a vote"
Dec 10 16:03:11 *    Southern_Gentlem has quit ("Leaving")
Dec 10 16:03:12 <Sonar_Guy>    Your missing the obvious
Dec 10 16:03:14 <Corwyn>    now, they can't
Dec 10 16:03:53 <Sonar_Guy>    and they can not if they get pulled away anyway.
Dec 10 16:03:58 <BobJensen>    We need to have time to think on this, we are not voting abotu it tonight
Dec 10 16:04:06 <Sonar_Guy>    If they miss the vote bring it up on the mailing list.
Dec 10 16:04:15 <Sonar_Gal>    I agree there
Dec 10 16:04:31 <Corwyn>    !!! Move to close the meeting
Dec 10 16:04:32 <Corwyn>    eof
Dec 10 16:04:36 <Sonar_Guy>    Having a neutral vote does not resolve that isssue!
Dec 10 16:04:57 <BobJensen>    If you have an opinion I think formulate your ideas and suggestions so we can discuss and vote on this the first meeting of the new year
Dec 10 16:05:11 <Sonar_Guy>    Or on the mailing lists!!
Dec 10 16:05:17 <Corwyn>    true, but it does show that they were here and paying attention and they can't come back later and say "I would have voted yadda yadda"
Dec 10 16:06:09 <Sonar_Guy>    +1 close the meeting.
Dec 10 16:06:10 <BobJensen>    I will second the motion to wrap this up
Dec 10 16:06:17 <Corwyn>    +1
Dec 10 16:06:41 *    Sonar_Gal now calls this meeting to a close.  Thanks to everyone who attended this weeks Unity