Meeting Minutes for 11 February 2007

Feb 11 15:01:33 *    Sonar_Gal now calls this meeting to order
Feb 11 15:01:51 <Sonar_Gal>    tasklist  http://fedoraunity.org/fup/task-list/
Feb 11 15:02:10 <Sonar_Gal>    guidelines  http://fedoraunity.org/fup/meeting-guidelines/
Feb 11 15:02:31 <Sonar_Gal>    looks like just the 4 of us
Feb 11 15:03:08 <Sonar_Gal>    1. # Draft a Backup Policy
Feb 11 15:03:08 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2007-Jan-28
Feb 11 15:03:08 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Feb 11 15:03:08 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Draft a policy for backing up the servers and a disaster recovery plan. This needs to be in place and tested ASAP. Plan is in place, scripts still need testing. Backups being done manually for now, scripts still in process. Jon has a way to backup Zope DB live. VMWare backups still being scripted by Bob. Backups are working.
Feb 11 15:03:28 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:03:33 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:03:58 <daMaestro>    Sorry, none of this is done yet. Everything is still manual and I have pretty much just left Bob to doing all the backups. I snapshot the server if I make a major change.
Feb 11 15:03:59 <daMaestro>    EOF
Feb 11 15:04:24 <Sonar_Gal>    2. # Document Server configs and setup process
Feb 11 15:04:24 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2007-Jan-28
Feb 11 15:04:24 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Feb 11 15:04:24 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Document all progress on the sites as this work is completed so we have the history! In Process on Gobby. Nothing new as of 3 Dec 2006. In process, security review being performed by Jon to be sure we are not putting Fedora Unity at risk.
Feb 11 15:04:37 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:04:47 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:04:55 <daMaestro>    I need some direction on what I am really supposed to do here. EOF
Feb 11 15:05:03 *    nman64 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Feb 11 15:05:06 <Corwyn>    !
Feb 11 15:05:12 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Feb 11 15:06:04 <Corwyn>    We need the server configs and setup the be documented, ie: what needs to be done to rebuild if anything happens to the servers and for any reason you can't do it or are unavailable.
Feb 11 15:06:06 <Corwyn>    eof
Feb 11 15:06:19 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:06:26 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:07:47 <daMaestro>    There is so much it is not worth my time to write documentation on how we do things "today". Things end up being changed more often then not. Am I supposed to just publish the server configs? I know I am "Server Team Lead", however I wonder if this task is just a placeholder/waste of my, and anyone elses, time.
Feb 11 15:08:12 <Corwyn>    !
Feb 11 15:08:13 <Bob-Laptop>    bxz6y5dPhonetic Alphabet ...wq
Feb 11 15:08:31 <daMaestro>    If I get a list of things needing to be documents, I will work to fill out the needed info. Plainly put, I am going to have to start cutting down my time working on non-mission critical tasks.
Feb 11 15:08:59 <daMaestro>    If this is a problem, I am more then willing to step down as "Server Team Lead". Otherwise, I'd like some help on this task if we are going to keep it.
Feb 11 15:09:00 <daMaestro>    EOF
Feb 11 15:09:03 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Feb 11 15:09:48 <Corwyn>    Jon, a disaster recovery plan, assuming the servers go down again, the backups are not usable, and you either leave Fedora Unity, Have to leave town or, god forbid, die. eof
Feb 11 15:10:32 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:10:36 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:11:17 <daMaestro>    Ok, I will work to get some general documentation done. I'm working on too many things to make this a priority. I'll explain more when the floor is open. EOF.
Feb 11 15:11:45 <daMaestro>    s/documents/documented/ too
Feb 11 15:11:54 <Sonar_Gal>    3. # Setup Non-Profit Organization
Feb 11 15:11:54 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2007-JAN-28
Feb 11 15:11:54 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Unity-Leaders
Feb 11 15:11:54 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Get the papers filed for setting up a non-profit organization for Fedora Unity. Andrea is pulling the paperwork and documentation together for this with Bob. Even if filed now, not expected to be approved before 01-JAN-2007. Bob is working on hiring someone to get this done.
Feb 11 15:12:06 <Bob-Laptop>    !
Feb 11 15:12:11 *    Sonar_Gal gives Bob-Laptop the floor
Feb 11 15:12:30 <Bob-Laptop>    I did not hear from my Lawyer this week, I will call him on Monday
Feb 11 15:12:44 <Bob-Laptop>    EOF
Feb 11 15:13:06 <Sonar_Gal>    4. # Create new content type for templates, other plone related
Feb 11 15:13:06 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2007-JAN-28
Feb 11 15:13:06 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Feb 11 15:13:06 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Jon is working on this. to be sorted out by FUDcon. Include Develop Unity workflow and state change notification
Feb 11 15:13:16 <Corwyn>    !
Feb 11 15:13:36 *    Sonar_Gal gives Corwyn the floor
Feb 11 15:14:08 <Corwyn>    I'm still struggling with the workflow, I scrapped it 4 times already and started over, the way I see it in my head and the way it ends up on paper just don't mesh. eof
Feb 11 15:14:19 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:14:39 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:14:46 <daMaestro>    This is an example of a project that will take a good amount of my free time. I would be spending time on this or documenting how our servers limp along. EOF
Feb 11 15:15:36 <Sonar_Gal>    5. # Automate testing of ISO's
Feb 11 15:15:36 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: 2007-JAN-28
Feb 11 15:15:36 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Testing-Team
Feb 11 15:15:36 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Create an automated testing process and scripts for the testing of respin ISO's. Script posted, needs more testing. Also needs Will Wood to go over script.
Feb 11 15:15:44 <Bob-Laptop>    !
Feb 11 15:15:52 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:15:53 *    Sonar_Gal gives Bob-Laptop the floor
Feb 11 15:16:03 <Bob-Laptop>    Had a good talk with Will Woods and company about this at FUDCon
Feb 11 15:16:40 <Bob-Laptop>    Using Scott's scripts and some ideas from them and they pykickstart stuff I think this is very doable
Feb 11 15:17:03 <Bob-Laptop>    Hoping that in the next 3-4 weeks we can see some true progress
Feb 11 15:17:05 <Bob-Laptop>    EOF
Feb 11 15:17:11 *    Sonar_Gal gives daMaestro the floor
Feb 11 15:17:39 <daMaestro>    I think we should look upstream for the large amount of this automation. I don't mind what we do have, thanks to Scott for getting done what we have. With the opening of Beaker (RHTS) it might be best if we collaborate with upstream to develop tests.. using vmware or not. I have not taken the time to look at beaker closely.. been too busy with other things. EOF
Feb 11 15:18:14 <Sonar_Gal>    6. # Back-ups!! Back-ups!! Back-ups!!
Feb 11 15:18:14 <Sonar_Gal>        * DATE DUE: ON-GOING
Feb 11 15:18:14 <Sonar_Gal>        * ASSIGNED: Server-Team
Feb 11 15:18:14 <Sonar_Gal>              o NOTES: Perform Server Backups!!
Feb 11 15:18:25 <daMaestro>    !
Feb 11 15:18:37 *    Sonar_Gal now opens floor for discussion
Feb 11 15:18:48 <daMaestro>    Bob, has this been getting done. I have not been doing *any* backups.
Feb 11 15:18:50 <daMaestro>    ah
Feb 11 15:19:09 <daMaestro>    Ok, well per request of my father, I am going to have much less time to spend on Fedora.
Feb 11 15:19:11 <Bob-Laptop>    Yeah I have been backing up
Feb 11 15:19:48 <daMaestro>    I'm not sure what that means. He has declared Fedora a "hobby" of mine. Basically, I'm going to need to work more, get in school.. and deal with stuff like that.
Feb 11 15:20:30 <daMaestro>    So, I'm going to have to move from a "I have some free time, I'm going to work on *these* projects" to "I have allowed myself 2 hours to work on *this* project"
Feb 11 15:21:27 <Corwyn>    This brings up something I see as an issue, please hear me out before commenting or getting the wrong ideas.
Feb 11 15:22:08 <Corwyn>    It appears to me that, we have been losing sight of what Fedora Unity is about and what it's purpose for the community is.
Feb 11 15:22:19 <Corwyn>    IE: Documentation
Feb 11 15:22:50 <Corwyn>    We have so many side projects going recently that we haven't focused on the core of Fedora Unity
Feb 11 15:23:54 <Corwyn>    Poor Jon is so hard pressed and put upon by these projects that he can't manage the servers or those core issues by these projects, and now real life takes hold.
Feb 11 15:24:29 <Corwyn>    I think we need to start getting back to what we do, then resume the other projects once we clear the tasks.
Feb 11 15:24:36 <Corwyn>    eof
Feb 11 15:25:59 <daMaestro>    Fedora Unity, to me, has been a group of users with side projects working together to get those side projects done.
Feb 11 15:26:11 <Bob-Laptop>    there is only so much documentation stuff that we can do in our small scale
Feb 11 15:26:21 <daMaestro>    Fedora Unity, as a group, might have started doing documentation, however, we have evolved to much more.
Feb 11 15:26:47 <Bob-Laptop>    I agree with daMaestro, the group has changed in general
Feb 11 15:27:07 <daMaestro>    Our claim to fame has still been the *-Spins, not to say our documentation is not grade A and very useful to the community.
Feb 11 15:27:28 <daMaestro>    I've been working on this GUI tool so we can forget about the *-Spins. At least I can.
Feb 11 15:27:33 <daMaestro>    Example:
Feb 11 15:27:53 <daMaestro>    I've spent my last few weeks on repo_sync, pirutspin and the servers.
Feb 11 15:27:56 <Bob-Laptop>    one thing that will help Jon is to get the software projects in to a system like hosted
Feb 11 15:28:38 <Bob-Laptop>    so others can contribute
Feb 11 15:29:00 <daMaestro>    I have not had time to get a workflow done. I've been overworked with the *-Spin stuff. Weither it be getting the torrent setup for public consumption, fixing server issues, testing, developing, etc.. I just have not had time for the documentation/plone stuff.
Feb 11 15:29:37 <daMaestro>    Due to everything I have been doing/required to do, I don't even have the time to be the Server-Team Lead.
Feb 11 15:29:55 <daMaestro>    Pretty much the only reason I still have that title is there does not seem to be anyone else that wants to deal with it.
Feb 11 15:30:14 <Corwyn>    that's my point, Jon, and I'm very concerned, not just about the work getting done, but you as well, so much has fallen on your shoulders, it's not fair
Feb 11 15:30:17 <daMaestro>    I can't even fulfill those duties because I am working on other.. as Corwyn has called them, side projects.
Feb 11 15:31:04 <daMaestro>    There are a few things that I just have been ignoring. For one reason or another.
Feb 11 15:31:34 *    CyberSpy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Feb 11 15:31:39 <Bob-Laptop>    One of the problems we are having is that some projects never seem to get done
Feb 11 15:31:40 <daMaestro>    I can get those done is short time, however, the time I am going to be able to donate to Fedora Unity is going to have to be cut even more.
Feb 11 15:31:55 <daMaestro>    Bob-Laptop, examples.
Feb 11 15:32:22 <Bob-Laptop>    Spins, never ending
Feb 11 15:32:33 <Bob-Laptop>    site content updates
Feb 11 15:32:39 <Bob-Laptop>    stuff like that
Feb 11 15:33:01 <daMaestro>    Ok, my first reaction to those examples:
Feb 11 15:33:26 <Bob-Laptop>    repo_sync is still in an unknown state as far as I can tell
Feb 11 15:34:04 <daMaestro>    I've taken from our discussions, you are still wanting to do *-Spin releases. Ok, more work on my pile, and others.
Feb 11 15:34:14 <daMaestro>    repo_sync.. oh.. that is the example I wanted you to bring up.
Feb 11 15:34:20 <daMaestro>    Who worked on that?
Feb 11 15:34:22 <daMaestro>    I did.
Feb 11 15:34:32 <Bob-Laptop>    the resources we have had for that one item has moved on to working on another thing that is not even productive to our "product"
Feb 11 15:34:35 *    CyberSpy (n=cyberspy@cpe-065-191-191-010.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #fedora-unity
Feb 11 15:34:41 <daMaestro>    Does it work? Yes. In your eyes it is an unknown state.
Feb 11 15:34:50 <Corwyn>    hang on, please don't turn this into fight
Feb 11 15:35:12 <daMaestro>    I like that no matter how much time I spend on things... they are "not enough".
Feb 11 15:35:39 <daMaestro>    This is one of the reasons why I am letting the group know the amount of time I am going to be able to donate is going to have to go down.
Feb 11 15:35:43 <Corwyn>    no Jon, my point is, too much has been foist upon you
Feb 11 15:35:47 <Bob-Laptop>    You are the only one saying it is not enough
Feb 11 15:36:18 <daMaestro>    Then what do you mean by "unknown state".
Feb 11 15:36:24 <Corwyn>    you can't do it all alone, my thinking is, some things need to be backburnered
Feb 11 15:36:40 <Bob-Laptop>    I am saying it is to much, get the shit published so others can check out the source and help
Feb 11 15:37:27 <daMaestro>    The source has been available since I started the sync script for us.
Feb 11 15:37:45 <daMaestro>    I would have not even done it, if I did not have a personal use for a local repo.
Feb 11 15:37:45 <Corwyn>    or the workload needs to be split up, delegated, get others working on things that are on your plate, so you can focus better
Feb 11 15:38:04 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, the problem has been, so far, it is my job to also delegate.
Feb 11 15:38:09 *    gen0 (n=gen0@c-69-241-146-193.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has left #fedora-unity
Feb 11 15:38:52 <Corwyn>    then we need to work together to figure this out, that is what teamwork is about
Feb 11 15:40:21 <Corwyn>    and yes, you did an exellent job on the repo_sync, I've been using it, and, except for one minor reporting thing, it works flawlessly, the reporting issue is so minor it can be ignored.
Feb 11 15:40:36 <daMaestro>    Ok. I have no problem working details out.
Feb 11 15:41:05 <daMaestro>    I just wanted to inform everyone that I need to make changes in my life, and one of those is regulating how much time I can donate to Fedora Unity.
Feb 11 15:42:02 <daMaestro>    Also, if there are projects requested.. and they don't make it on the task list... well I spend most of my time on things not on the task list.
Feb 11 15:42:24 <daMaestro>    I took on pirutspin because I'm sick of dealing with *-Spins
Feb 11 15:42:40 <daMaestro>    repo_sync was requested by bob, I worked on it because I had a personal use for it.
Feb 11 15:42:40 *    gen0 (n=gen0@c-69-241-146-193.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #fedora-unity
Feb 11 15:42:58 <Bob-Laptop>    pirutspin does not help us with spins
Feb 11 15:43:07 <Corwyn>    with so many things going on, and now the changes in your life, WE, as a team, need to find a way to help you, so we can get things done, forgetting the ongoing things like content updates, that's being dealt with by Scott and me. We need to get a focus on a project that can be completed, get it done and move on to something else.
Feb 11 15:43:35 <daMaestro>    Bob-Laptop, No, it does not help with "your" vision of spins.
Feb 11 15:43:57 <daMaestro>    Bob-Laptop, You want to continue to release *-Spins under the Fedora Unity name. I could give a shit.
Feb 11 15:44:09 <Bob-Laptop>    That about says it all
Feb 11 15:44:15 <Bob-Laptop>    Have a nice day
Feb 11 15:44:25 <daMaestro>    I want to empower user ABC to do what ever the hell they want with Fedora.
Feb 11 15:44:51 <daMaestro>    I'm sick of supporting the torrent network, donating bandwidth, taking time to do the dance. I'd rather let people click a few buttons and be done with it.
Feb 11 15:44:59 <Bob-Laptop>    and the users that do not have the resources SOL
Feb 11 15:45:02 *    gen0 mutters something about a list...
Feb 11 15:45:29 <Corwyn>    gen0, please hold on, we're in a meeting at present, please pm me your question
Feb 11 15:45:43 <daMaestro>    Sad enough, Fedora Unity might end up in a situation where *we* don't have the resouces to do *-Spins.
Feb 11 15:46:10 <daMaestro>    Bob-Laptop, I see your goal of full automation.
Feb 11 15:46:19 <daMaestro>    Bob-Laptop, I think that kicks ass.. thus I've been working on it.
Feb 11 15:46:40 *    bori (n=cbormann@p5485F67D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #fedora-unity
Feb 11 15:46:41 <Bob-Laptop>    I will deal with the spins and a related logistics from here on out
Feb 11 15:47:19 <daMaestro>    Problem, to me, is that there are RH people that get paid for this stuff. I think Fedora Unity has pushed the needed innovation.
Feb 11 15:47:24 <Bob-Laptop>    You could care less, so this puts the communities needs and wants on my shoulders
Feb 11 15:47:39 <Bob-Laptop>    I will deal with it
Feb 11 15:47:40 <daMaestro>    Yeah, with all the work I have put in.. i really could care less?
Feb 11 15:48:01 <Bob-Laptop>    "<daMaestro> Bob-Laptop, You want to continue to release *-Spins under the Fedora Unity name. I could give a shit."
Feb 11 15:48:04 <daMaestro>    That is really nice. This is yet another example of where my time seems donated for no reason.
Feb 11 15:48:24 <Bob-Laptop>    You could give a shit. sorry I used the wrong words
Feb 11 15:48:39 <daMaestro>    I don't care if there are "Fedora Unity *-Spins" .. or if RH releases them.. or if users just make their own
Feb 11 15:48:50 <Corwyn>    No Jon, your time is important, that's why I brought this issue up, I'm concerned, too much has been placed on your shoulders
Feb 11 15:50:15 <Bob-Laptop>    Motion to close the meeting, I need to cook dinner
Feb 11 15:50:30 <Corwyn>    I see your point, Jon, you want a tool that anyone can use
Feb 11 15:50:31 <daMaestro>    I think releasing updated install images should be a Fedora Project task, not a Fedora Unity task.
Feb 11 15:50:36 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, yes.
Feb 11 15:50:45 <daMaestro>    Corwyn, and I am close to having it done.
Feb 11 15:50:51 <Corwyn>    ok
Feb 11 15:50:59 *    Sonar_Gal now calls this meeting to a close.  Thanks to everyone who attended this weeks Unity meeting.